如果這很危險的話，為什麼不讓它得到監管呢|專訪kitty女士（下）
Kitty Chopaka是長期活躍著的泰國大麻運動家、鬥士，為推進大麻法案和推進公眾的大麻教育付出了很多的努力以及做出貢獻。
除此之外，她也是大麻創業者，“Chopaka”（经过许可的大麻店和泰国FDA批准的萜烯软糖）的创始人、所有者和推广者。
Kitty Chopaka is a long-standing and active cannabis activist and fighter in Thailand, dedicating significant efforts and contributions to advancing cannabis legislation and public education on cannabis. In addition to her advocacy work, she is also an entrepreneur and the founder, owner, and promoter of "Chopaka" (Licensed cannabis shop and ThaiFDA approved terpene flavoured gummy).
“Q&A”
🎤😁🦸🏻♀️
我感覺泰國合法化之後，沒有更多的stoner出現，沒有出現混亂。
I feel like in Thailand after the legalization there's no more people smoking. It's still the same people who smoke. It didn't make any chaos.
是的，新的使用者的數據並沒有那麼高的影響。或許有些人會嘗試，但是如果他們不經常使用就不會上癮。所以你無法預計，我們就種這麼多，沒有辦法這樣估計。你無法影響別人。一開始可能會起作用，當你開了個新的藥房，但是沒多久他們就接著去喝酒了。
Yes，the new users and what not the numbers does not get influenced that much. Maybe some people will try but if they don't use it or they get addicted to it. Yeah. That way you can't really work out really how much. Like, you know, we're going to grow this much. You can't. You can't influence them. It will only work at the very beginning when they open up a new store, get new people in and then afterwards when they choose to go back to alcohol ， they go back to alcohol.
酗酒者轉變為大麻使用者需要時間，需要長期的教育讓他們自己開始認為，“我不能在這樣了，有沒有其他的方法讓我可以達到相似的效果”。到了那個時候，他們會成為你的顧客。
But it's down to education. There will be a time when those who are drinkers will go, I can't take this anymore. Is there anything else that I can use that will give me similar effects? And then by that time they will then be your customer.
在那之前，你能做的不多，只能讓他們知道什麼在發生，什麼存在。當成熟時，自然會發生。
But before then you can't really influence them anyway except for letting them know what is out there, what exists and when it is time for them then that's when... Yeah.
是否遭遇過公開的質疑聲音？是如何回應的？
Have you encountered public doubts? How did you respond?
無時無刻，我愛它們，因為它給了我說話的機會，給了我機會去解釋。
All the time. All the time. Love it. It gives you the chance to talk. Ah, yeah. Like, you know, give you a chance to explain.
我喜歡看google的差評，比如說產品很貴之類的。我就會解釋，價格是這樣是因為成本，a\b\c\d\e，這讓其他的人們有機會去了解這些，然後理解你，成為你的顧客。所以，作為一個活動家來說，質疑是好事，非常歡迎。但你需要了解更多關於他們的情況，然後給與他們可以正巧需要的知識。然後才能有可能和他們對話，達到真正的聯結。
I actually, it's no different than getting bad reviews on Google. Like, you know, on the map they are like at the very beginning ， it's like, oh, it's so expensive, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, it's expensive or it's at that price which is the true cost price at that time because A, B, C, D, E. And what happened is it allows for other people to look and go, oh, I'm okay with that. I support this theory and then I would be a customer. So, when you encounter doubt as an activist or an advocate ， it's good. You're welcome. But you need to learn more about them to be able to give information in a way that it triggers them. It touches them. It talks to them.
當人們問我和別人說什麼，我都會回答這要看對方，他們問什麼，他們是誰。根據他們的職業和領域來分享知識。或者他們只是擔心公眾的價值觀等等。如果他們是店鋪老闆，我們會聊更多關於政策，法規手續；如果他們是母親，我們會聊更多如何教育和保護青少年在面對大麻的問題。
Because when people go, oh, what do you tell these people? Depends on them. What they are. More information that worked within their field of work. Or because they are scared of the public. Bring those information up. If they were a mother, maybe we'll talk more about how do we talk to teenagers?
這給了你更多做事的機會，但是你真的需要了解你的聽眾。然後你需要用別人能理解的方式來交流。如果你和孩子交流，要用孩子的語言。我的孩子們曾和我說，當我在和他們著急時，我總用很複雜的詞語，他們聽不懂。就像是這樣，你需要給他們，他們可以理解的文本。和孩子說的時候，可能用講故事的方式會更好，而如果你和工程師交流，你要用工程師能明白的語言。
It gives you the opportunity to do that but you really need to learn about your audience. And adapt everything you say to what they would understand.
It's like you're talking to a kid. One of the problems that my kids tell me is sometimes when I yell at them, I use big words. Big words. They don't understand. It's just like that. You need to give them the context that they understand. So if you're talking to a kid, you need to go into storytelling that's in the way that they understand. You're talking to maybe more an engineer in their language in the way that they would understand.
認為公眾應該怎麼看待和使用大麻？自己是如何使用大麻的？
What do you think the public|stoner should think about and use marijuana?
How do you use marijuana yourself?
你應該負責任的並且安全的使用大麻，就這麼簡單。安全意味著不要和其他的物質混在一起，除非你已經那樣用過並且你非常清楚你在做什麼。負責任意味著不要煩到別人，不要打擾別人的空間，或者做一些不尊重別人的事情：比如說不要在公開場合，把煙吹到別人的臉上，這很愚蠢。但這在其他的事情上是一致的，簡而言之就是別做一個混蛋。 DONT BE A DICK .
You need to use cannabis responsibly and safely. It's as simple as that. Safely meaning try not to mix it with anything else unless you've already been there and done that and you know exactly what you're getting into. And also responsibly by not being annoying to other people. By not being like encroaching on other people's space or doing things that are not respectful. Don't go outside, smoke cannabis and then blow it in someone's face. That's just stupid. But that also goes for everything else. In general, don't be a dick. Just so simple. Simple.
關於怎麼使用，我喜歡roll joint，我喜歡在家用。我也會在允許抽麻的社交場合使用，在可以公開使用的國家我使用，我遵守規則。我遵守隨則到，哪怕需要走很遠去找一個可以抽煙的地方，我會走過去。
I smoke joints. I like to roll. And I like to use at home. At home, not at a social place. But I prefer to not be... I will use where it is socially accepted to use. So in certain countries it is okay to use over here. I will follow the rules. I follow the rules to the point of I will walk to very far away to find a cigarette smoking place to smoke my cigarettes.
我喜歡在家用，我的東西都在家，食物、水、空調、工作。 我的確喜歡和朋友相處的使用，但我不認為目前現在公開使用大麻是好的。
But I do enjoy using it at home because that's where most of my stuff are. I have access to drinks and food in the fridge. Aircon. Rather than going out. But then at the same time， I do like socializing with friends. But I don't see public use as a good thing yet.
因為我認為人們應該在像一個狂熱者一樣公開使用大麻之前，應該先和父母交流，關於他們在使用大麻這件事。因為我們是亞洲人，很多人都是在外面表現的很厲害威風，到家之後又很乖很禮貌。我真的不喜歡這些事情，我希望這些事情都不再發生。
Because I do feel that people need to talk to their family at home about their usage before they come out and able to, you know, act like crazy people at a pub. Because we are in Asia and there's a lot of you behave one way outside like, I'm so big, do you know who I am? And when you go home you're like, oh somebody come out. Like which is I really don't like that. And I want to see that not happen.
因為這樣做的話，家裡的人依然會對大麻很保守。所以，作為使用者，應該讓家人也理解這件事情，樹立一個好的榜樣。讓其他人看到大麻的負面報道，比說說大麻使用者很瘋，爬電話亭之類的，他們就會覺得說，並不是這樣，因為就我的經驗來看，我的鄰居使用大麻，他很可愛，會送我們他做的食物。你知道，這些事情是實際地在轉變公眾對大麻的認知。
Because by doing that the people at home still going to be very conservative about it. If you are a user you need to also advocate and be a good role model so that other people who looked at cannabis and go and you know, like say if they read a headline to go, oh this cannabis user went crazy and start climbing up a telephone pole. And they would go like no, because from my experience my next door neighbor use cannabis and they are very adorable and they just make food and bring me over food. You know, like that perception is how you change the public at large.
關於現在想著當下have fun，不去思考三年甚至五年會發生的事情，這樣的觀點不會對任何人有任何的幫助。我能理解那些派對場景及相關的一些。但是與此同時，做那些不尊重法律的事情。讓我們不僅僅談論泰國的問題，還有那些允許你種植、銷售和購買大麻的地方。但是你銷售到其他國家就是違法的。如果一直做這些事情，走私的草就會對泰國產生問題。這些事情會讓結果產生不好的反轉，但這就是產業內的人不規範行為而造成的問題。不要總是用為了派對的場景來合理這一切，因為這一點都不合理。
And by just wanting the fun right now and not really thinking about what's going to happen in 3 years time or 5 years time is not doing anybody any favor. And I understand that there are like, you know the whole party scene and everything like that. But at the same time like by doing things that are disrespectful to outside law. Let's not talk about the problem within Thailand. Outside law such as say they allowed for you to grow and sell and buy cannabis right now. But you decide to grow it and send it outside the country to where it's illegal. By keep on doing that, the outside, meaning the country that the stuff keep on getting into will start coming in to us and make it as a problem for us. I would say the only way anything can be reversed would be that type of thing. And it's all down to the people within the industry to not behave that way. And to not like all go for just the party scene. Because it doesn't make sense.
你知道，你也不可能每天都在派對。我嘗試過，一整年都party，說實話這比每天都工作還累。他們在逃避，大麻不應該用來逃避，而是用來幫助面對自己和自己相處。所以，它不是一個派對藥物，讓你high起來然後忘記今天幹了什麼，或者沒幹什麼，不用負責任。大麻不是這樣的，也不應該被這樣使用。不過，當你混合酒精和其他藥物時，這些就會發生。因為你讓它這就變得更具傷害性，這是濫用的開始。
Like you know, you can't party every day. I tried. I did that for about a year and then it's more tiring than me working this much now. More tiringish. And it's like people like it's not, they are escaping. Cannabis shouldn't be used as an escape. It should be used as something that you use to confront or work yourself to a place where it needs to be worked. So it's not one of those party drugs where you get high and then forget about what you did that day or what not. Being not responsible. I don't feel that cannabis is one of those. And it shouldn't be used as one of those. But it does happen because when you mix alcohol with it, you'll mix like other things with it. You make it more harmful. And that's when abuse happens.
但我的確通過大麻能夠更加的享受我的生活。由於我是個女性，所以我在一個月固定的時間需要大麻。在pms的時候，痛經的時候，偏頭痛的時候，如果沒有大麻我會死的。沒有其他的方式能夠讓我從中解脫，但這也僅僅是每個月的那幾天而已。
I enjoy my life better with cannabis. There are certain times where and certain times of the month because I'm a lady that I would die if I don't have it. Like PMS. Like you know I'm having cramps. I'm having migraine. And there is no other way for me to get rid of that without this. But that's only during certain times of the month.
怎麼使用你需要自己去嘗試，有些時候你會知道抽的不夠，有些時候覺得抽多了。所以，我們應該怎麼做？什麼對你來說是合理的？你應該自己嘗試，這和其他任何人都沒有關係，沒有人比你自己更加了解你。比如說，有些人有大麻茶就很開心了，有些人用萜烯糖就足夠了，這就是他們。因為我們正在談論推廣和宣傳，作為活動家的時候，你還需要那些不使用大麻的人來支持你。就像我的丈夫，他不使用。還有一些我的朋友，他們不使用。我也不會鼓勵他們去使用，但當他們自然而然地想要嘗試時，他們就會來我這裡購買。事情就是這樣。
And you will need to try it. Like you know there was time when I'm like oh that's a bit too much. Oops. And then there were time of like okay that's not enough . Okay so what do we do? What makes sense for you? Because it should not be about anyone else. Yeah and you know no one knows themselves better than themselves. So like some people are more than happy with just the tea. Some people are like you know are okay with only the terpene gummies without even cannabis at all. But that's just kind of where they are. And like because we're talking about activism and advocacy you also need the people who don't use as supporters. Like my husband.
Yes. Like you know certain friends who don't and I'm like no I'm cheering you on. I have a choice if I want to go and buy. And then with them they always go I will want to buy my first time from you. So it's like yeah.
Thc會影響你的思考嗎？
So now you can smoke and works？ THC doesn't make you cannot think clearly.
我會說它會以不同的方式起作用。這或許是和默認的認知相反，但是我每次演講前，每一次上台之前，我都要抽大麻。不然我的手就會像這樣一直抖，我會感受到焦慮。儘管我已經演講很多次，但我還是會感受到焦慮。一般來說，在我的演講之前， Kitty 會躲在一個地方抽麻。然後，我就感覺到ok了，然後我就走上台去。這不會影響我，只會幫助我將注意力集中在我需要集中的事情上，並且不會對平時會感到害怕的事情感到害怕。
It works in different ways I guess. I know that this is probably going to be counter intuitive. I smoke before I go on every speech. Every talk on the stage. Because my hands are like this. I get anxiety. I do many talks but I get anxiety really really bad. Usually like just before my talk ，Kitty will be over there somewhere. Hiding. I really joint. And then like okay I'm good now. And then I walk in. And that's when people think that I got this. And I'm like oh hi. I did. But but it did not impair me. It just helped me focus on the thing I need to focus. And not get scared by the things that I would usually get scared.
在參與420行業的過程中，心態發生了什麼樣的轉變。
In the process of participating in this industry ，did your mindset has changed?
我必須要去經歷所有對於藥物的偏見的旅程，不僅僅是大麻，還有其他的藥物。因為人們總會這樣想，大麻是OK的，但是其他的藥物都是壞的。他們對其他的藥物的偏見和不使用大麻的人對大麻的偏見一樣。
I had to go through the whole judgment journey of like drugs. We're not talking about just cannabis but everything else. Because people will always think that cannabis is okay. Every other drug is bad. And they have the same stigma with the other drugs. No different than people who don't use anything has with cannabis.
所以，我要經歷這個旅程。因為如果不這樣的話，你還是有同樣的思維模式。你並沒有去從環境中學習更多，為什麼這些政策這樣的起作用等等。
So like I have to go through that journey with that too. Because without it ，you're just kind of you're still going to have the same mentality. You're not learning more about the surrounding why certain policy works in certain ways.
不去學習就和之前沒有區別，你還在對別人有偏見。你在對別人有偏見的時候，你又不想別人對你有偏見。
And there's no different. You're still judging people. You want other people to not judge you but you're still judging them.
所以，這種更多的理解也是我進行更多政策相關的工作的原因。因為，如果沒有政策和法規來為一切規定框架的話，現狀不會改變。所以，所有人的感知應該同步，公眾的感知和我的感知。現狀法規對於大麻和其他藥物是一樣的，實際上，所有都應該有區別。
So it goes into more on to the understanding and that also leads to why I work more on policies now. Because without the policies or regulation that comes out to set the framework for everything else nothing will change. So that has to come together with perception. The people's perception. My own perception. And also what's going on with the policy that's in place right now. And most of those policies regulate other drugs the same way with cannabis when they should all be different.
我的心態和觀點一直在轉變，但都是轉向更加公眾化的考慮，也不是出於我自己的喜好和利益。更少的自我執著。而是我真的想看到發生的事情會發生。我不在乎最後是否有人可以記住我，只要這件事情發生。我知道、我自己記得就完全足夠了。
So like my mentality is constantly shifting and changing. But in a way that is more public. Like less for my own benefit. Less ego. Yeah, less ego. And more in terms of I really want to see this happen. It doesn't matter whether anyone remembers me. Just as long as it happens I know and I remember that's all that matters.
所以你不認為只有大麻是好的，其他藥物和致幻劑是壞的？
So like you don't hold the idea that cannabis is good and other drugs or like LSD bad.
藥物都需要被合法化並且受到監管。如果你要參加火人節，想要週末過一個有mdma的快樂時光，你應該是可以去從藥房中買到。或者可以合法地從你的醫生那裡以處方的形式得到，為什麼不呢。
但是，在那之前，我們就要弄清楚關於它的一切。如何安全的使用；如何確保它是真的，不是別的什麼東西。因為所有的這一切，我們不能讓他們停止，我們不能不讓人們去getting high。如果這很危險的話，為什麼不讓它得到監管呢？
Drugs should be legal and regulated. If you want to go to say a burning man and you want to have MDMA for the weekend you should be able to go and get it from a pharmacy. Or be able to legally have it prescribed by your doctor or what.
But like until then we need to figure out everything around it. How to do it safely. How to make sure it's the real one. Not something else. Because all of this, you can't stop them. You can't stop people from getting high. Yeah. And if it's so dangerous then why not regulate it.
覺得行業內部現在是否有什麼問題？希望怎麼解決？
What do you think is there some problem in the industry now? How to solve it?
行業內的問題我看到的是個人崇拜（ego clash），個人崇拜不是競爭，競爭對與行業來說是需要的。而個人崇拜更多是人們在炫耀自己，並且彼此競爭。他們不尊重法律，但正是法律讓我們可以做這些事情。而且明明我們還需要更多的法律，來完善現有的情況。他們依然在不合法的做生意，不規則，也不在乎規則。
我最討厭些人總是在說，我是為了人民做這個事情，我為了這個、為了那個；但我在之前推進合法化的旅程中我從來沒有看見過這些人。但這些人很容易佔領整個行業，因為他們有更多的錢。
The problem I see in the industry is ego clashing. Ego clashing. It's not really competition. If it's competition it's something that the industry would need. But it's more of ，like you know， People showing off. Clashing with their egos. People not caring about the law. They gave us the ability to do this. And we wanted more still. They still do it illegally. They still not follow the rules. And don't care for it. And I hate it the most when all those people are the ones who constantly go I'm doing this for the people. I'm doing this for this. I'm doing this for that. When I've never seen them before in my whole fucking journey to where this is. And the industry will be easily taken over by those people. Because they have more money.
但是總的來說，對於這個情況我不知道該怎麼辦。因為很多人覺得他們沒有做錯。或者他們不在乎，因為他們不住在這。或者這也不是他們生命的終結。這是我的家，我會想確認這是一個我想要居住的地方。 或許會有一個時間點，一切都轟然倒下，然後在回升並趨於穩定。但是不應該由他們來點燃這把火。因為如果我們想用不一樣的方式來處理這件事呢？
我討厭人們不斷地告訴我什麼我做錯了，什麼我沒有做對，政府可以做什麼等等....比如和我說，給政府時間，然後政府就會聽取建議，我的反應是，什麼時候這樣過？ （since fucking when? ） 然後和我說，他們更知道怎麼回事是因為他們在這個市場，又在那個市場經歷過這一切，最後全失敗了。我的想法是，那你為什麼又出現在這裡？
But overall I don't know what to do in terms of this problem. Because at the end of the day a lot of people think that they are doing it right. Or they don't care because they don't live here. Or that this is not the end of their life for them. This is my home. And I will make sure that my home is a place where I want to be at.
It will be a point where everything will be crashing down and then goes back up and then stabilise. But you shouldn't be coming in here and fuel that fire. Because what if we are trying todo it differently? I hate it when people constantly telling me what I've done wrong or what I didn't do right or what the government can do or like you know give me time with the government and they will listen to me. I'm like since fucking when?
Yeah And it comes in as a we know better because we've been through it before in this market or in that market and in that market and they all fail. And my thought would be then why are you here? It could be you. That's why everything's all failed.
所以，我不強調只有泰國人可以在這個市場上；但同時，我希望參與的人都是真正在乎行業的。長期呆著泰國的，把這當做自己家的人。我不想看見medman在這，他們同樣破壞了投資者的行業。你知道，如果小企業想要成功，但他們無法獲得資金支持，因為你把所有資金都給了一個注定會失敗的商業模式，那就太蠢了。但這就是現實，我猜沒辦法。你不能告訴人們該怎麼做，他們必須自己失敗後才會來找你。
So I don't want to limit cannabis to only Thais. But at the same time I want to see the people who really care about the industry. Yeah and you know who's going to be here in the long run because this is their home . And it's not like I don't want to see like you know the mad men guys being here because it also ruins the industry for investors. Like you know what if the little guys want to be successful but also they can't access to funding because you just give it all to a business model that would fail. But because you thought it worked like it's stupid. So but that's just how it is I guess. You can't tell people what to do and they have to fall before they come to you.
泰國420未來的機遇和挑戰。
What do you think the further opportunities and the challenge for Thailand?
機會是生產方面，我們在找新的生產方式。關於種植不應該只局限於現在的種植方式。我觉得美国和欧洲现在的种植方式是局限的，他们种植，然后他们割下。实际上是可以再种的，但他们说那样thc含量就降低了，但是我没有看到有人在证明这件事情。所以我试过种第二轮，并没有那么的差。所以我们应该在所有的方式上思考，不局限于一种，尋找一種新的方式。
Ah Opportunity is production. We will end up figuring out a way, a new way of production. Innovation an innovative way of growing which are not limited to how it is being grown right now. I feel that how the US and how Europe is doing it is very limited. Because like you know they grow and then they cut it. But technically we can re-vegetate them and have them come back. They said that the THC is lower but I don't see anyone trying to prove that. And I tried the second round of crop and it wasn't so bad. So maybe that does make sense for us. So we need to come up with all different ways.
為什麼之前局限於一種？因为之前是不合法的，当你做违法的事情的时候，你不会再一个地方呆太久的时间，所以三四个月，你收获（cut）然后搬走。但現在沒有必要再這樣了，这就是我认为我们有机会的地方，这样会降低我们的成本。因為我們現在的種植成本很高，因為我們只是在複製他們（歐美）。低THC 可以製作其他的產品，不是每個人都需要那麼高含量的THC。
Why is cultivation limited to that? Well before it used to be illegal. So if you make anything or do anything illegal, what's the key thing? You don't stay in one place for a very long time. So within 3-4 months you cut，you move, you go to another place. You don't need to do this now. Yes ，And that's where we think our opportunity lies. And that would lower our cost because right now our cost of production is very high. Because we're copying them. If lower THC can do other products like not everyone wants high high THC
挑战就是總有人再說你做的不對，你這樣不行，就不聽他們的就好。那些人是已經在行業內的人，他們想要售賣一些東西，比如說你必須用這個，你必須用這個。但我明明可以用更便宜的本地生產的，他們會說這個不行，你得用這個。
Future challenge by coming up with that there's going to be people going No you're not doing it right. This is how you do it. It's going to be bad. Just don't listen.
So there will be people within the industry already trying to sell something. Like you got to use this particular thing or you got to use that particular thing when it's like Dude we have the same stuff that I can buy it cheaper over here. It looks the same. No no it's special. It's like no it looks the same.
認為泰國的草現在質量怎麼樣，最好的來自哪裡？
How do you think the quality of the weed in Thailand now? And which is you recommend?
和之前沒有太多的不同。但我們有好的種植者，現在更多了。依然有很多美國來的進口貨，但是都很老了，好的都在美國市場消費完了。不好的、老了的就丟到了這邊。
Okay. The quality of cannabis in Thailand right now is I would say not very too different from before. And we always had access to. We have good growers but now there's more. Unfortunately there's a lot of import American stuff. Which I would say it's not great because it's quite old. Like think of it that if it's good quality stuff it would have been sold at the shop. If it's not sold at the shop it's either old or it's like you know not that great. And they are only dumping it here.
很多泰國種植的都很好，這主要看農產在種植的那個人，這個是最重要的。有時候也看自己狀態，當時我是一種什麼樣的感受。比如說，有時候是一個特定的indica是我需要的，然後有一天就覺得還是算了，想要blue dream。所以，我沒辦法和你說什麼是最好的，我有一些自己喜歡的東西，但是這個太主觀了，也一直在變。
So but then what's good here? Many things is good here. I would say that it all depends on the person or on the farm.
Then anything else. It's kind of really to me it's like really depend on the individual. And also it depends on how I feel like at that particular time. So like some days this particular indica is what I love. And then some day you'll be like nah I want the blue dream. So I wouldn't, I couldn't tell you where is the best. There'll be stuff that I like and that's kind of that. Because it's subjective.
有哪些聲譽很好的種植者？種植團體嗎？
So the one to ask is now like there is a grower community like who has good reputation of grower.
總是有喜歡和討厭的聲音同時在發生，就像我之前說的，自我崇拜這類的現象會在這裡發生。所以我真的不打算告訴你什麼是最好的，誰種的好。但我可以說，什麼是一個好的種植者。
如果你是一個種植者，你不應該說謊。還有按照事實說話，差不多這樣就夠了。如果你用了化學成分，就告訴大家你用了，你是有機種植就說自己是有機種植。你從這裡得到了品種，就說你是從這拿到的，不要編造名字。是什麼就是什麼，然後就能走的更遠。同時你應該接受別人的評論。 總會有一個瘋子，不讲道理，他們總會說我的貨是最好的，blahblahblah，，你只需要屏蔽他們哈哈。
There will always be loves and hate just like anyone else. That's kind of what I mean, ego clash， that's kind of where that happens. So hence I'm really not gonna tell you what is best. Who are great. But I would say for you to be a good grower you need to not lie. And tell things as is. And that's pretty much it. If you use chemicals you tell them you use chemicals. You do organic, you do organic. You got this strain from here, you tell them that's where you got your strain. Like you know don't come randomly add a name you know tell it as is. And that is gonna be where you'll go the furthest. And you also should accept what other people say about it as well. And there will always be a crazy person where they don't make sense and you would just need to block them. There will always be someone going like nah my stuff is the best and like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and you can just go like that's not really helping or very constructive.
還有個事情，你種的最好，並不一定代表你賣的最好。我無法告訴你誰最好，但我可以告訴你什麼賣的最好是那種是種植者不會種的sativa。因為種植者植者們追求最高的THC，最緊實的花朵。但有時候顧客喜歡9%thc含量的，喜歡味道好的，但是種植者不願意種那些。所以你到底準備賣給誰？所以，ego有時候對這個行業沒有幫助。太高thc含量的可能在貨架最前排的罐子裡面放著，但一禮拜都沒有人會碰。但那些更有水果風味的，仍然黏黏的，聞著好聞的，到最後賣的很好。甚至簡單像茶一樣的產品，都賣得很好。
But here's the thing you grow the best doesn't mean that you would sell. I can tell you right now, I can't tell you who's the best but I can tell you what sells best which is sativas and it's the stuff that growers are not growing. Because they wanna have like the heaviest THC, the thickest, the most compact buds. When the customer wants 9% or less，they like the stuff that the growers are not really wanting to grow .So who are you trying to sell to?
That's kind of why like ego sometimes is not really helping the industry. They'll be like, oh yeah I grow this it's so compact, it's so much THC and it will be in the jar in front of the shop for weeks without anyone touching it. But the stuff that was more fruity but still sticky, smells nice doesn't you know like it ended up going out a lot more. Or like even tea. As simple as tea.
所以那些和市場相反的東西現在卻發生在產業內。比如總推廣說你會很high，high到昏過去。但是不，很多人想抽完大麻之後逛街，去吃街邊小吃，做一些事情，而不是就是暈過去。這樣浪費時間也浪費錢。哥們你來曼谷不是就為了呆在酒店裡的吧過去，這也很浪費錢。
So like all of those things are like you know it's going against the marketing that comes out within the industry. Like you're gonna be really high, oh you're gonna be so high that you pass out. A lot of people want to use cannabis and then go out and shop. And go out and eat street food. And do something, not pass out. That's a waste of time. Waste of money. Dude, you're not here in Bangkok to spend time at the hotel. Yeah,I can do that at home.
之後的計劃是什麼？最終願望是什麼？
And what's your ultimate wish? What's my plan further?
更多在政策上，對國際大麻法做更多的影響。因為所有的事情都是相關的，美國、歐洲和泰國的法律是有因果關係的。美國的法規很嚴格，很難種植，又有很多的產品，所以他們來泰國，法規更加鬆散的地方。所以我真的想要解決這邊的問題，我就要也要多工作與在泰國之外的地方的法律法規政策。
我最終的願望就是對「單一公約」進行修改。以一種方式，讓大麻除罪化，可以作為一個國際商品實施。目前國際監管大麻的法律是聯合國1961年的「單一公約」。明年會舉行一個重大的會議，我真心希望會有變化。現在所有的藥物都被那個法律規定，鴉片、冰毒、可卡因，這個公約太需要被改變。如果不改變，大麻仍然是非法的，不論是美國、泰國還是其他國家。跨境時會變得非常麻煩。
More in policy. Influencing more international law. Because everything is interrelated. With the law in Thailand, with the law in the US, with the law in Europe. All of those have an action and a reaction. Because in the US, the regulation is very tight. It's difficult for them to grow. There's a lot of products, so hence when it comes to Thailand where the market price is more, regulation is so loose. So like if I want to really fix the problem here, I need to work more on the rules outside as well, not just Thailand.
Ultimate wish would be like that there's an amendment for the single convention.They make changes to the single convention. And that would be my ultimate wish. Like you know, in a way that cannabis has been removed from it. And it can then be implemented as an international commodity. The international law that is regulating cannabis in the whole world right now is the single convention. And that is it will be there's going to be a big meeting next year where hopefully I really wish for them making changes. Because all the drugs are regulated by that law. Meaning opium, like you know methamphetamine, cocaine and all of its derivatives. All of those are regulated by this law. And it needs to be changed. If you don't change it, cannabis will still be illegal. Yeah, in the whole world. Like United States, Thailand. And then going across border can sometimes be quite difficult.
關於泰國420媒體
About Thailand 420 media
我現在是個alone wolf，alone kitty，因為我發現我真的不喜歡男性的ego，作為女性我發現我做了更多的事情，但是他們得到所有的credit。所以這是為什麼我做我做的，但是我不在乎。
I am now a lone wolf for a long time. Like a lone kitty. Because I find that I really don't like the male ego. And the fact that because I am a female I have to work more than they do. And they take all of the credit. So that's kind of why I do what I do by yourself and don't really care.
我是個父母，在成為父母之前，你不會那麼在乎孩子們。我不想看到孩子被利用來推廣大麻，就算他們剛剛成年。用那種派對的心態來推廣大麻並不是推廣健康的方式，也不是為了更少的消費其他的東西。我想要合法化，或許人們會有一種意識儀的改變，就是我的孩子們有選擇大麻來可以替代使用酒精、尼古丁的消費。
I am a parent. You gotta understand that no one cares about my kids or kids until you are a parent. And I don't want to see children being used for say promoting cannabis or even like even if it's just a growth or things like that. And it's by having the very party mentality with cannabis does not promote the health or the things that we use or we consume to consume less.
I want it legalized so that other people perspective change and that my kids have access to it as an alternative to alcohol or nicotine. It's not for like I want to use it.
我是一位每天使用者。我認為這對女性的幫助比其他任何事情都要大，但僅僅將它視為派對的事情，我們不會感到使用它是安全的。就像當你走進藥房時，感覺就像是去朋友家或者在非法時代去買大麻的經銷商那裡。就像你知道的，當你買大麻時，你可以一邊玩PS5之類的東西。我了解在大麻還是非法的時候會這樣，但現在這不是我追求的。我不是那種類型的顧客。因此，我以不同的方式做事，我們不遵從常規。我們遵守規則，按照對我們有意義的方式做事，並且制定自己的規則指導行動。
I'm a user. It doesn't really do much to me to promote the partying more people use it. I'm a daily user. I see that this would help women more than anything else and by just looking at it as a party thing we don't feel safe to use it. Seeing the dispensary like when you walk in like you're going to a friend's or your dealer back when it was illegal's house. Like you know you're playing the PS5 and all of that while you're buying weed. Like I understand when it was illegal but now that's not where what I'm looking for. I'm not that type of customer. So hence I do thing differently and we don't follow the norm. We follow the rules and we do things what makes sense for us and we make our own rules as we go.
是的，我們不是媒體，也不是基金會。我們是一家公司，但我們大部分的收入都回歸給人民。因為我已經有了薪水，我過得很好。現在我可以為了自己想要做的事情而做一些隨機的事情。我可以做一些因為我不受任何人拘束而做出的決定。我可以一開始就做我認為正確的事情，例如確保我們的包裝只能回收再利用。確保我們只從泰國購買。確保所有那些我認為有道理、符合倫理且應該成為商業的基礎的規則和事情。
Yeah and we're not a media. We're not a foundation. We're a company but most of our revenue goes back to the people. Because I already have a salary. I'm okay. And now I can just do random things for the sake of I want to do it. And I can put in things that because I'm not tied down to anyone having making decisions. I can do things that I consider as right at the very beginning. Such as making sure our packaging are only recyclable. Making sure that we only buy from Thai. Making sure that all those rules and things that I find make sense and ethical and should be the basic of how you do business.
簡單來說就是dont be a dick的概念，不要對自然環境be a dick，不要對你的工人be a dick，確保他們有足夠的收入；不要對你的顧客 be a dick，確認他們花錢花的值；不要對你的供貨者be a dick.....其實很簡單。
The concept of not being a dick. Don't be a dick to the environment. Don't be a dick to your worker. You make sure they're well compensated. Don't be a dick to your customer. Make sure they get what they are paying for. Don't be a dick to your supplier. Simple. Yeah, don't be a dick.
為什麼對大麻有強烈的感情？
how you have strong belief to the cannabis
我使用了很長時間，今年是第20年。所以我是作為一個十幾歲的少年開始使用的，當時是在澳洲成年的年齡。當然在懷孕和哺乳期間我是不使用的。但是對我來說，它是一個很多方面的事情，這就是為什麼我對它如此熱情。
我和大麻的關係也一直在改變，隨著我的年齡。當我更年輕的時候，我看待大麻就像是一個crush，就像是看到一個帥哥一樣，那種很喜歡的迷戀，每次見面都很激動，就像這樣，其實不是一個很健康的關係；隨著年級變大，我用大麻來管理我的壓力，來工作；年級更大一點的時候，我用大麻來管理我的荷爾蒙、身體等等，我現在把大麻當做一個阿姨。
I use it a very long time ,like you know this year coming up is like 20 years of use.So you use as a teenager 18,so adult in Australia .And there were time when I didn't which is during pregnancy and breastfeeding .But yeah it's a it's a thing that I it's many things to me ,that's why I'm so passionate about it
你知道的，它改變了我與它的關係。是的，我確實把它看作是那種美妙的植物，就像你說的那樣，但我不在乎你是否使用它，對我來說它很棒，對於其他人，那是他們的選擇。
I mean like you're grown up like as a human, how shall I say my relationship with cannabis ,change with my age. When I was a younger person, I see cannabis as a crush ,you know like the guy who's really hot and you're like oh I really like him, and like you know you get all excited each time you see them. And you know like it's like that like you know it's it's not a good healthy relationship .And then the older I get, I use it to help manage stress during work ,so it's a different type of relationship I have with it. And then I get even more older where I use it to manage my hormones and all of that stuff .So I see it more like an auntie you know .And then like you know it changes my relationship with it. And yeah and I do see it as that wonderful plant as you said, but I don't care whether you use it or not .To me it's wonderful to me ,it's great. To other people, up to them.
你對於A4U有什麼建议，认为應該如何改變公眾認知在大麻合法化的事情上。
What do you think Asia420United can do to change society’s perception of cannabis? What are your expectations 、suggestion for the future of A4U?
我知道大麻社群是一個另類的社群，你知道的，有很多藝術家，有很多創新突破界限的人等等，這是非常新的事物，有很多開創性和挑戰性的工作。这都是有趣的工作，你可以訪問有趣的人。但是这其中也有我作为活动家害怕的事情，就是你只在「對信徒佈道」——和已经相信你的人们在交流。所以事實上，你沒有觸及新的人，儘管你想要做的事情是讓大麻合法化。你需要明白，你需要擺脫自己最熟悉的事物。
I understand that cannabis is the alternative community.Like you know you have like artists ,you have like all of those kind of there and it's like it's very new, a lot of like you know ground breaking boundary pushing and things like that.
And that's kind of where the fun work is. Like you know you're doing the interviews of interesting people ,but you're also but you're only preaching to the choir, that's the word, that's something that I always am usually afraid when I'm doing advocacy or activism work .Preaching to the choir is like only talk to the people that already believe you, so like you're not really reaching any new person, even though what you're trying to do is trying to have cannabis be legalized .And you've got to understand that you need to move away from the things that are you're most comfortable with.
因為那些你需要說服和交流的人，那些你需要成為你顧客的人，不是這些你現在交流的對象，不是這些已經相信你的人。而是那些比如你的父母、你的叔叔阿姨這些人。因為到了最後，你可以讓所有的年輕人對大麻很興奮，但是他們在社會中沒有實際的影響力。所以，改變不會發生。除非發生像種抗議、衝突那樣的爆發性變革，這就是革命通常的起源方式。
Because the people you need to convince and talk to and change them into being your customer, and not the people you're talking to right now ,and not the one who already believe you, but the one who are like say your parents, your auntie, your uncle .Because at the end of the day, you can get all the young kids so excited about cannabis, but because they don't have any power within the society itself. Changes won't happen unless it's one of those erupt changes which is like you know protests and then clash and then you know that's how revolution usually starts .
但還有一種方式可以說服他們，而那些人是使用大麻的完美對象。不要認為茶不能改變世界。是的，我們從茶開始，你覺得我們是怎麼讓那些老年人參與其中的？每個人都喝茶，每個人都知道茶。這個你們中國人比我們知道的更清楚。而大麻茶，也只是其中的一種茶而已。
所以，總是能找到一些大眾能夠鏈接的事物，對被認為是安全的，是他們不需要思考太遠就能理解的事物。比起教育他們什麼是大麻，怎麼使用bong，我們也可以從大麻茶可以讓你感覺更好，睡得更好這個角度出發。這也與中國傳統醫學有關。所以這也可能是另一個方向，同時也喚起了民族主義情懷，你會說「啊，是西方告訴我們不能使用大麻，我們應該更加中國，將它重新引入」。
所以，這就是我的建議，不要只對信眾傳教，不要試圖說服那些已經同意的人。
But there is another way you can convince them ,and those guys are the one who are the perfect people to use cannabis and don't think that tea could be something that can't change the world. yeah you start with tea, how do you think we got all those old people involved? Everyone has tea, everyone knows tea .Come on, you're in China ,you guys are the tea people .This is just but one of the tea.So always find something that they can relate to ,that is considered safe, that is something that they don't have to think too far and they understand .Rather than trying to teach them or talk to them about cannabis, or how to use. Like you know, you can use it like with the bong, or you can use it to help fix this and that .Let's start with, you know cannabis tea makes you feel like you're in a better place, it makes you sleep better.
It's also go back to traditional Chinese medicine as well .So maybe that's also another thing and then it brings out the nationalism and then you're like ah it's the Western who tell us that we can't have it we need to be more Chinese by bringing it back
Yeah so that's kind of that would be my advice don't preach to the choir don't don't don't try to convince those who already agree with you.
我明白，如果是業務的話，你不會浪費時間在那些不是你的客戶的人身上，但這是倡導工作，它的目的在於確保人們對它有一個良好的觀點。
你需要改變那些從未同意你觀點的人的想法，這是兩回事。當你在做生意時，你希望有自己的客戶群，你清楚地知道他們的需求和想要解決的問題。但如果你真的想讓大眾接受某種觀點，你需要開始與那些不是你朋友的人交談。
I understand if it's a business like you know you don't waste time on the customer who are not your customer. But this is advocacy ,and it's all about making sure that people have a good perspective of it.
You need to change the mind of the people who never agree with you. It's two different things .Like you know when you're doing business ,you want to have your own people that you're selling to ,and you know exactly what they need and what they want. And the problem that you're solving for, but if it's something that you really want the mass to deal with ,you need to start talking to those who are not your friend.
关于未来の許願
Make a wish bout future
我想要看到更多的女性在這個行業，不僅僅是那些在大麻植物旁邊show奶子的人，這讓我們不想要接觸這些事情，或者真的不想與之聯繫起來。行業需要更多女性視角，了解我們如何看待事物，我們的观点。
I like to see more women within the space ,that is not just showing their tits next to a weed plant or like with a ball.
It makes us kind of really don't want to touch it, or really don't want to be associated with it .But at the same time like there needs to be more women lenses and you know how we see things within this industry .
我想要看到行業裡更少的謊言，可惜的是，這或許不會發生。這裡是泰國，這裡是亞洲，總有人想要銷售什麼，所以總會有謊言。說著我們的產品是本地的，但是其實是進口的；我們想要支持大麻合法，但是非法操作；這一切等等所有的事情。
所有這些都是非常矛盾的事情，我真的希望這些情況能消失，但更重要的是，我希望Mary Jane，我們美好的邪教領袖和大麻女神，詛咒這些人，希望他們的生意都失敗。
yeah I want to see less lying in the industry unfortunately that's not gonna happen. Yeah but hey this is Thailand, this is Asia, someone's gotta want to sell something ,so obviously they have to lie. Like lying about the product ,yeah or lying about ah this is all from Thailand ,but it was imported .Or yeah we support local growers, but we import the stuff.Or like oh yeah we want legal cannabis ,but selling distillates .Like you know ,all of those things that are like very contradicting. I really hope that actually I don't mind. I would like to see it disappeared, but more I would say I wanna I hope Mary Jan our wonderful cult leader, the deity of Mary Jane would just curse these people. And I hope that all their business fucking fail.
因為我們為了現在的成就而努力工作，如果有人真的要毀掉這一切，我絕不會允許發生。我會尋求大麻女神的幫助，她會詛咒他們，因為我一直相信大麻會回報那些真心付出的人，而對於那些不純心的人，將會受到報應。
Because they I work really hard to make sure that we get what we've got now. And if people are really going to fuck it up, I am not going to let that happen .But I will go back I will go and ask the help of the goddess cannabis. She will curse them all .Because I always believe that cannabis will give those who give but anyone who's really are not doesn't have the purest of heart that would get fucked up.
我認為這更多是關於公平性的問題。所以，當我抱怨人們撒謊時，是因為他們不遵守規則，而每個人都應該遵守相同的規則。如果只有我能夠賣花，而其他人卻賣其他產品，那在市場上我們就無法公平競爭。他們可能賣的是仍然有需求但不被允許與花一起銷售的產品，比如油或純化物等。因為他們不遵守規則，這也可能對消費者造成危險，這讓消費者認為所有大麻都是危險的。你知道，到那個時候，我該如何解釋呢？
I think it's more about fairness. So like I'm complaining about people lying .It's because instead of you following the rule, and everyone has the same set of rule ,that you follow it's down to just the market. Like say if I can only sell flowers as if if other people sell something else and not the flower .Then it's not we're not competing evenly in the market .They're only selling something that is still in demand but is not allowed to sell together ,like you say oils or distillates or things like that .And because you're not following the rules ,it also could be dangerous for the consumer ,which then make the consumer thinks that all of it is dangerous ,which by the time like you know ,it's kind of how do I explain it.
不遵守規則會使其他人處於不利地位。舉個例子，假設我支付7%的稅金，而這個7%的稅金對我來說是成本。但如果他們非法進口並且不支付稅金，那他們就多獲得了7%，就是這麼簡單。
By not following the rules you make other people at disadvantage. So let's say I pay taxes I say I pay taxes at 7% and that it cost me that 7% to pay the taxes if they bring it in illegally and they are not paying taxes they got 7% more .It's just as simple as that.
或者他們可以做我不會做的事情，比如促銷或免費贈送產品，這就不公平了。這就是為什麼我感到憤怒，他們破壞了合法化，並且教育水平很差。而他們賺取利潤，而我仍然無法做到，仍然在辛勤工作，無法做到這一點。 但你知道的，不管怎樣，這都會發生，因為這就是泰國的現狀，人們總是貪婪、做更少、得到更多，是的，這很悲哀，但是...悲哀但卻是真實的。
Or that they can do things that I would not do, like promoting or giving things away for free .So it's not fair, that's why I get angry .And they fuck the legalization and they have bad education.And they make the profit while I'm still here unable to ,yes still working unable to do that. But at the like you know it's kind of it will happen either way, because this is just how Thailand is and humanity ,people just want to do greedy and do less and have more like .Yeah that's very sad but yeah
sad but true.
我總是可以期待變革，因為如果不期待變革，就不會有變革。我們不知道變革會發生在何時。如果我們不努力推動變革，就不會有任何進展。
Well I can always hope for change .Because if not like you know like I can always hope for change there will be change. When it happens we don't know .And if we don't work towards change nothing would happen
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