“Q&A”
🎤😁💃🏻
請簡單向大家介紹一下你們的品牌和團隊。主要的業務是什麼？媒體？生產產品？其他？
Please give us a brief introduction of your brand and team. What is your main business? Media? Production of products? Others?
從金屬樂隊時代走到嘻哈與地下電子派對，海肯是從 2014 年正式成立至今的自媒體選物店兼煙具唱片行。我們會不定期舉辦活動，一直致力於推廣大麻平權、迷幻文化與好音樂。
海肯 is a self-media concept store and smoking accessory record shop that has been promoting cannabis rights, psychedelic culture, and good music since its establishment in 2014, evolving from the metal band era to the hip-hop and underground electronic party scene.
什麼時候開始做這個事情，是什麼樣的一個機緣。初心是什麼？當時是怎麼想的？
When did you start doing this and what was the opportunity? What was your original intention? How did you think about it at the time?
最開始是因為玩樂隊，同時一直有在寫文字，推廣一些 underground 文化與外國樂團介紹，這方面從國中就開始了，初心就是想把喜歡的音樂分享給更多也會喜歡的朋友聽到。
It started with playing in a band and writing about underground culture and foreign bands, which began in middle school. The original intention was to share music that we like with more friends who would also appreciate it.
以前樂隊都沒玩得持久，就開始想辦法賺錢，天馬行空的先放下，把人生過得踏實點。
The band did not last long, so we started thinking about ways to make money and put aside our lofty ambitions to live a more down-to-earth life.
接著算是兩手空空從路邊與音樂祭擺攤、網路生意慢慢做起。最重要的是，很感謝我的好 homie 帶我認識 420 文化，讓我打開了心、看到更多視野。跟大家一樣，在那之後就開始接觸了更多不同音樂與文化，來者不拒了。
We started with street vending and online business at music festivals, and most importantly, I am grateful for my homie who introduced me to 420 culture, opened my mind, and gave me a broader perspective. Like everyone else, I started to explore different music and cultures after that.
做的過程中遇到什麼阻力？經濟上怎麼開始？是否和popo過招？家裡人支持嗎？
What obstacles did you encounter in the process? How did you start financially? Did you have any conflicts with the police? Did your family support you?
阻力也有過好多，金錢的困境、為人的課題，不過宇宙（大環境）給你考驗也是應該的，一切都是必經課程，最後的感想都是很感謝也很幸運。
I faced many obstacles, such as financial difficulties and personal challenges, but I believe the universe challenges us for a reason and everything is a necessary learning experience. In the end, I am grateful and fortunate.
經濟上其實在長大後，家裡一直都是負債的，所以一開始對未來也很茫然。生意的開始是跟那時女友借了一張額度新台幣兩萬的信用卡開始的，每次我都會提到，真的很謝謝她。
Financially, my family has always been in debt since I grew up, so I was unsure about my future at the beginning. I started my business with a credit card loan of NT$20,000 from my girlfriend at the time, and I am really grateful to her for that.
在台灣其實不太特別需要一直跟 Popo 過招，只要遵守那些規則與地點，開車要小心，但多少還是面對過聲音跟檢舉什麼的，很fucked up。
In Taiwan, there is not much need to confront the police constantly as long as you follow the rules and regulations and drive carefully, but I have still faced the challenges of being reported or criticized, which can be frustrating.
家裡倒是開明，爸媽沒有反對，他們知道大麻文化、420 是很積極正面的東西，不僅我跟他們說，他們自己也會去查資料跟看那些歐美紀錄片，拒絕被政府與媒體洗腦。不過當然還是會擔心，因為我們在推動政府與法律不敢誠實面對的事。
My family is open-minded and did not oppose my involvement in the marijuana culture and 420. They know that it is a positive and empowering movement, and they have even done their own research and watched documentaries from Europe and America to reject government and media brainwashing. However, they still worry about the risks involved in pushing the government and laws to face the truth.
當地的420文化狀態，地下環境的氛圍？
The 420 culture in the local underground scene?
近幾年台灣從草東沒有派對的獨立樂團浪潮爆發後，音樂場景快速進化，就非常活躍了。而 420 文化本身跟音樂場景息息相關，隨著人數越來越多，大家也越來越敢組織推動與發聲了。我們相信只要從音樂與藝術開始，大家就會發現這些精神價值。
In recent years, the music scene in Taiwan has rapidly evolved after the independent band wave from the Eastern District. The 420 culture is closely related to the music scene, and as the number of people involved increases, more people are willing to organize and speak up. We believe that starting from music and art can help people discover these spiritual values.
除了去年中因疫情有演出活動被暫停幾個月外，台灣近幾年地下場景是充滿熱活力的。從樂團音樂祭、嘻哈活動還有這些地下場館越來越多，銳舞趴與那些在自然山林間的戶外派對也是百花齊放。剛好在我出國的這一年，被關了幾個月的活動解封後，我看到大家都玩得更瘋了。
Except for last year's event cancellations due to the pandemic, the underground scene in Taiwan has been full of vitality in recent years. There are more and more underground venues, from music festivals, hip-hop events to underground clubs, and outdoor parties in the natural mountains. Just when I left the country, activities resumed after a few months of lockdown, and I saw everyone having even more fun.
一起做這件事情的夥伴是怎麼召集的，現在處於什麼階段？
How did you gather your partners to do this, and what stage are you at now?
剛好也是推廣 420 文化後，有越來越多夥伴加入，一開始是從身邊朋友開始，再慢慢磨合挑選，也到網上徵人等等。原本都沒什麼工作組團經歷，所以是一個緩慢隨性的過程。
As I promoted the 420 culture, more and more partners joined us. It started with my friends, and we slowly selected and trained them. We also recruited people online. We had little experience in organizing and operating as a group, so it was a slow and casual process.’
前幾年海肯是一人運作的網路小本經營，慢慢順著步調組成團隊、開了間小店，目前我們即將搬去更大、更能辦活動的酒吧空間。
A few years ago, I was running a small online business by myself, but slowly, I formed a team, opened a small store, and now we are about to move to a larger venue where we can hold events.
你們是否遭遇過公開的質疑聲音？你們是如何回應的？
Have you ever encountered public questioning? How did you respond?
有的，阻力跟質疑像是永無停止的挑戰。遇到不尊重、不講理的聲音，我們不去多理會，表明立場、持續堅持進步，一直以來，時間都會證明一切。
Wow, there are always challenges such as resistance and questioning. When facing disrespectful and unreasonable voices, we don't pay much attention to them, express our stance, and continue to strive for progress. Over time, everything will be proven.
當然很感謝的是那些中肯的批評與建議，是我們努力的動力之一。後來會覺得都是必經之路，勇於跨出那些需要修正的每一步，秉持初衷、堅持與進步，我們喜歡用行動與改變回應。
Of course, we are very grateful for those constructive criticisms and suggestions, which are one of our driving forces. Later on, we realized that it is a necessary process, and we have to take every step that needs improvement with courage, uphold our original intention, and insist on progress. We like to respond with action and change.
想要繼續做這件事情的動力是什麼？
What motivates you to continue doing this?
最主要就是成長過程，我在家裡有遭到很長期的創傷經歷，有時能樂觀看待，有時會很難過、抑鬱。之後透過音樂興趣認識了有著類似故事、能理解彼此的朋友。隨著長大，又認識了 420 文化，這些能徹底幫心靈過濾雜質的東西，再加上陪伴，最終慢慢療癒了我，這很美，也很熱血
The main motivation is the growth process. I had a long period of traumatic experience at home, sometimes I could look at it optimistically, and sometimes I would feel sad and depressed. Later, through my music interest, I met friends who had similar stories and could understand each other. As I grew up, I also learned about the 420 culture, which helped filter out impurities in my soul completely, and with companionship, I gradually healed. This is beautiful and passionate.
我們再也不用被不好的回憶所定義、糾結，自己能有清醒的能力，去追尋一個更快樂、更健康的人生。
We no longer have to be defined or entangled by bad memories, and we have the ability to pursue a happier and healthier life.
而只要想到世界上還有好多跟我們有著類似經歷的生命，就非常扎心。因為我懂你懂的痛、很多人無法理解的孤獨。
As long as I think about the fact that there are many lives in the world that have similar experiences to us, it is very distressing. Because I understand the pain that you understand and the loneliness that many people cannot understand.
所以我想分享這些資訊給更多人知道，就是想增加一些機會幫助到需要的人。這些確實比那些資本主義的西藥、精神科藥物，比那些真正的毒品都好。只要用對的方式、跟對的人，一起去大自然談談心，是可以讓人生少犯很多沒必要的錯誤，更順心的活著。
So I want to share this information with more people, which is to increase opportunities to help those in need. These are indeed better than capitalist Western medicine, psychiatric drugs, and real drugs. As long as you use it in the right way and with the right people, talking to your heart in nature can help people make fewer unnecessary mistakes and live more happily.
所以在很早的時候就想到，這是我的命運也是一個很熱血的使命。慢慢的，開始發現我們有把這件事做得更好的能力與資源，所以我這輩子就只想做好這件事了，革命尚未成功，同志仍需努力！
So very early on, I thought that this was my destiny and a very passionate mission. Gradually, I discovered that we have the ability and resources to do this better, so in my lifetime, I just want to do this well. The revolution has not yet succeeded, and the comrades still need to work hard!
堅持這件事情的快樂是什麼？是否遭遇過自我懷疑或痛苦？
What is the joy of persisting in this matter? Have you ever experienced self-doubt or pain?
快樂來自參與感、成就感還有真的幫助到別人、也被別人幫助的正能量，就像上題聊到的。很早就有位朋友告訴我，我沒有忘記過，那就是懷抱感恩的心，是一切的最佳解藥。
Happiness comes from a sense of participation, a sense of accomplishment, and the positive energy of really helping others and being helped by others, as mentioned in the previous question. A friend told me very early on, and I haven't forgotten it, that is to have a grateful heart, which is the best cure for everything.
而這之間在不同階段，也都有自我懷疑過，也有因為被壓力、被金錢陷入迷惘的時候。但最後心中總有個聲音，讓自己在最低落的時候堅持下去，就是信念吧。
During different stages, I also had self-doubt and was confused because of pressure or money. But in the end, there was always a voice in my heart that made me persevere when I was at my lowest point, which is belief.
短期長期目標是什麼？理想和願望是什麼？
What are your short-term and long-term goals? What are your ideals and wishes?
短期目標是把我們的新店面，酒吧與地下場館弄好，開始定期舉辦活動，也有一起看電影跟一些創傷互助、迷幻科普座談等等。長期的話，就是走一步算一步，不會想得太遠，讓一切順其自然得走、讓更多看到這個文化的有趣與熱血之處。
Our short-term goal is to get our new storefront, bar, and underground venue up and running, and start hosting regular events such as movie nights, trauma support groups, and psychedelic education talks. As for our long-term plans, we take it step by step and don't think too far ahead, letting things naturally unfold and allowing more people to see the interesting and passionate side of this culture.
目前運營可以cover團隊的經濟需求嗎？現在大家對物質的需求大概是個什麼樣的狀態。
Can the current operation cover the economic needs of the team? What is everyone's current state of material needs?
目前處於一個穩定而沒有前進後退的狀態，回國還需要繼續打拼。不過大家對物質的需求理念都差不多，開心第一，錢夠生活就好，這樣也很棒。
Currently, we are in a stable state without much progress or setbacks, and we still need to work hard when we return home. However, everyone's idea of material needs is similar, with happiness being the top priority, and having enough money to live is good enough, which is great.
在參與420行業的過程中，心態發生了什麼樣的轉變。
What kind of mindset transformation has occurred during your participation in the 420 industry?
許多多餘的氣焰都被peace了，也對更多事情敬畏，再來就是節奏也慢慢調整到更舒服的狀態。雖講起來容易，做起來也是挺花時間的。就是每一年都想讓大家與自己，處於一個更好的狀態，而不是只有生意什麼的。
Many unnecessary arrogance has been tamed, and we have become more respectful of many things. Additionally, we have gradually adjusted to a more comfortable pace, although it's easier said than done and takes time. Every year, we want everyone to be in a better state, not just for business.
希望大部分人們怎麼看待綠色植物和迷幻藥物？
How do you hope most people view green plants and psychedelic drugs?
雖然目前還很難說服大部分的台灣民眾（被十幾年前的健康課本洗腦太深了）但當然是希望大家能以正確的方式，以健康的心靈藥品去看這些東西。畢竟好好使用，它們最有價值的地方就是能幫助心理層面的難題。
Although it is still difficult to persuade most Taiwanese people (they have been brainwashed by health textbooks from over a decade ago), of course, we hope everyone can view these things in a correct and healthy way. After all, their most valuable feature is their ability to help with psychological issues when used properly.
你們認為全球420行業內哪些品牌、媒體是值得學習的？原因？
In the global 420 industry, which brands and media are worth learning from? Why?
目前關注最多的還是亞洲泰國這邊，像 Highland 等等，當然也還有 Wizman 的經營之道。大家現在都在泰國這邊，畢竟是近期從不合法變合法的國家，這部分有很多地方都值得台灣的品牌與媒體學習、借鏡，所以我們也會持續分享這邊的資訊給大家！
Currently, we are paying the most attention to Asia, Thailand in particular, such as Highland, and of course, Wizman's business philosophy. Everyone is currently in Thailand, as it is a country that has recently changed from being illegal to legal, and many aspects are worth Taiwanese brands and media learning from and referencing, so we will continue to share information from here with everyone!
亞洲比起歐美國家相對保守，各個亞洲國家的語言、文化、習慣和偏見等等，造成了亞洲青年團體之間交流的難度，民主進程也只有部分國家在探索階段，民眾輿論和普及都會有一定的阻力。你們怎麼看待亞洲的情況，認為自己所在的地區推動420除罪，還會面臨哪些難以解決的問題？
Compared to European and American countries, Asia is relatively conservative, and the difficulty of communication between Asian youth groups is caused by language, culture, habits, and prejudices, among other things. The democratic process is only in the exploration stage in some countries, and public opinion and popularity will face certain obstacles. How do you view the situation in Asia, and what difficult problems will your region face when promoting the decriminalization of 420?
最主要就是與多數民眾、以及不使用網路的族群溝通。多年來錯誤資訊灌輸，很多人都選擇不去看那些國外真實的訊息，不願意相信自己以前接收的資訊是錯誤的。這能理解，但就是最有挑戰的部分。那些拒絕去看、去聽的人，會是我們推動大麻除罪最困難的地方。
The main difficulty will be communicating with the majority of people, as well as with those who do not use the internet. Over the years, incorrect information has been indoctrinated, and many people choose not to look at the true information from overseas and are unwilling to believe that the information they received before was incorrect. This can be understood, but it is the most challenging part. Those who refuse to look or listen will be the most difficult part of our efforts to promote marijuana decriminalization.
一切要交給時間，得持續與這些大眾連結，透過各種媒體、活動與抗議去發聲、對話，政治人物能幫忙推動更是重要，雖然很難，畢竟要與大部分選票背道而馳，不過先前台灣立法委員、議員已經有人表態過。再者，也會開始有年輕一輩的政治家去呼籲大家探討這個問題。
Everything should be left to time. It's important to continue connecting with the public through various media, events, and protests to speak out and have dialogue. It's even more important for politicians to help push this issue forward, although it's difficult since they have to go against the majority of the votes. However, some Taiwanese legislators have already expressed their opinions on this issue, and young politicians are starting to advocate for discussions on this issue as well.
就像我們的大麻律師李菁琪，之前差點就選上立法委員，今年則以綠黨身份參選台北市議員，她是我們台灣推動大麻除罪的領導人物，大家要好好支持！
Just like our cannabis lawyer Li Jingqi, who almost became a legislator before and is now running for Taipei City Council as a member of the Green Party this year. She is a leading figure in Taiwan's push for cannabis decriminalization, and we should support her well!
對合法化抱有希望嗎？覺得自己能做些什麼？希望合法化之後想做什麼？
Do you have hope for legalization? What do you think you can do? What do you want to do after legalization?
吸引力法則，必須抱有希望的。我們的部份就是持續透過自媒體、活動發聲，參與各大組織的聯合，加速一切進程。合法化後，當然是希望能當第一批的台灣 coffeeshop，我們相信我們會等到那天的～
The law of attraction requires hope. We will continue to speak out through self-media and participate in joint actions with various organizations to speed up the process. After legalization, of course, we hope to be the first coffee shop in Taiwan. We believe we will get there someday.
怎麼看待亞洲品牌、企業在420行業的發展？
How do you view the development of Asian brands and companies in the 420 industry?
因為亞洲發展較晚，目前會認為前途無量吧，不過身為拓荒者鐵定是充滿各種未知挑戰。大麻除罪化是全球趨勢，從靈藥變禁藥，再從禁藥反轉污名變成醫藥。我個人認為大麻合法是全人類歷史的必經過程，所以亞洲地區的 420 行業，可能會在未來隨著越來越多國家的開放、民眾的改觀，而獲得更好的發展。這時間會需要多久，就取決於我們能持續發多少聲了。
Because the development in Asia is relatively late, many people see great potential, but as pioneers, we are bound to face various unknown challenges. The decriminalization of marijuana is a global trend, from a sacred medicine to a banned drug, and then from a stigmatized drug to a medicine. I personally believe that the legalization of marijuana is an inevitable process in human history. Therefore, the 420 industry in Asia may gain better development in the future as more and more countries open up and public opinions change. How long this will take depends on how much we can continue to speak out.
為什麼我們需要聯合？現在亞洲之間的團體有什麼問題？
Why do we need to unite? What are the problems with the current groups in Asia?
現在中國與台灣年輕人之間的聯繫被硬生生切斷了，這很糟糕，主要的華語地區對大麻一事都很嚴峻，大家只能想辦法到其他地方進行串聯，泰國這時候開放就是一個很棒的時間點，大家能到這裡合法 chill、自由發聲，所以能有機會一起做這件事，是非常珍貴且充滿意義的。
The connection between young people in China and Taiwan has been forcibly cut off, which is very bad. The Chinese-speaking regions are very strict on the issue of marijuana, and everyone can only try to connect with others in other places. The opening up of Thailand is a great opportunity for people to legally chill and freely speak out. Therefore, having the opportunity to do this together is very precious and meaningful.
像東亞的日本、韓國也有許多地下組織，但目前看跨國聯合的組織不多。光是從語言、政治，還有近年大環境影響的氛圍來看，不奢望能很快很順利的就串聯起來。但即使充滿各種挑戰，大飛社已經來到清邁這邊替大家開路了，一起加油，然後就拭目以待吧！
There are also many underground organizations in Japan and South Korea, but currently, there are not many transnational united organizations. Looking at the language, politics, and the influence of the current environment in recent years, it is not expected to be able to connect smoothly and quickly. However, even though it is full of various challenges, Da Fei She has already come to Chiang Mai to pave the way for everyone. Let's work together and wait and see!
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